Message précédent :
Et pourquoi font-ils cavalier seul? J'aimerais bien connaitre les raisons exactes!
Mais il est clair que nos avions de chasse et nos chars d'assaut, il faut peut-être arrêter de penser qu'on va les faire avec eux!
de Le Tapir » 20/10/2022 15:52
de marone222 » 20/10/2022 15:54
Le Tapir a écrit:L'Europe est quand même sacrément malmenée et à poil en ce moment...
de Le Tapir » 20/10/2022 16:37
de Le Tapir » 20/10/2022 17:05
de Jagged_1138 » 20/10/2022 17:38
Le Tapir a écrit:Amha, on les a trop laissé gouverner l'Europe. Maintenant il font chier.
de HOCHET Gabriel » 20/10/2022 17:40
marone222 a écrit:Le Tapir a écrit: SLes grands gagnants sont déjà les asiatiques, Chine et Inde qui se frottent les mains! Derrière naitra peut-être un nouveau monde, un peu comme quand le monde moderne à succédé à l'époque médiévale : un gros changement de paradigme! On assiste peut-être en ce moment à un des actes fondateurs de la fin de la domination de notre monde occidental européen. Le crépuscule, c'est dans toutes les têtes.
Je ne vous apprends rien, mais en fait, la chute de la Russie, c'est aussi la notre! Bon... Dans tous les cas, on l'a dans le cul sur tous les scénarios!!
Je ne suis pas aussi pessimiste. Le PIB de la Russie est le 10e mondial, 1/10e de celui de la Chine et 1/12e de celui des US. PIB largement gonflé aux matières premières...
Les 1ers clients de la Chine sont les US et l'Europe. Les leaders de l'innovation sont de loin les US, etc...
Le changement de paradigme n'est pas pour maintenant, ni pour dans 20 ans , enfin amha...
de LEAUTAUD » 20/10/2022 18:03
)
de HOCHET Gabriel » 20/10/2022 20:12
de Corail » 20/10/2022 20:57
marone222 a écrit:Le Tapir a écrit:L'Europe est quand même sacrément malmenée et à poil en ce moment...
Oui, mais elle pèse encore 7 fois la Russie sur le plan économique
Pour continuer sur l'avance technologique, l'Occident (en incluant Taiwan et la Corée du Sud) grave le silicium en 2nm, quand la Chine grave péniblement en 14nm. Cela donne une avance considérable à l'Occident dans les systèmes de télécom, d'armement, etc...
C'est pour cela que Huawei a été la cible de l'Occident, ils étaient trop en avance...La vraie guerre, qui va durer, elle est là, elle est technologique
de Brian Addav » 21/10/2022 06:01
de zxcvbnm » 21/10/2022 07:10
de Le Tapir » 21/10/2022 07:40
de Le Tapir » 21/10/2022 09:12
de Jagged_1138 » 21/10/2022 09:24
Mirdhynn a écrit:Jagged_1138 a écrit:Le Tapir a écrit:Amha, on les a trop laissé gouverner l'Europe. Maintenant il font chier.
C'est un peu la première économie Européenne, accessoirement.
Sur ce sujet, De Villepin sur France inter ce matin expliquait que la "puissance" de l'Europe se renforçait au Nord et à l'Est et que de fait l'Allemagne devenait centrale dans cette géopolitique Européenne. En cause, le Brexit, la mauvaise gestion budgétaire des pays du Sud (France incluse). Bref, c'est plus la France qui serait isolée que l'Allemagne selon lui...
de Jagged_1138 » 21/10/2022 09:29
Mirdhynn a écrit:Jagged_1138 a écrit:Mirdhynn a écrit:Jagged_1138 a écrit:C'est un peu la première économie Européenne, accessoirement.
Sur ce sujet, De Villepin sur France inter ce matin expliquait que la "puissance" de l'Europe se renforçait au Nord et à l'Est et que de fait l'Allemagne devenait centrale dans cette géopolitique Européenne. En cause, le Brexit, la mauvaise gestion budgétaire des pays du Sud (France incluse). Bref, c'est plus la France qui serait isolée que l'Allemagne selon lui...
Ah mince, j'ai raté le 7-9. De Villepin est le seul type de droite auquel j'accorde mon attention.
replay
de LEAUTAUD » 21/10/2022 10:08
de Le Tapir » 21/10/2022 11:09
de rahoul » 21/10/2022 13:24
de toine74 » 21/10/2022 13:35
Mirdhynn a écrit:Il parle aussi de l'Ukraine. Selon lui la solution diplomatique ne peut réellement venir de l'Europe mais de la Turquie, de la Chine et de l'Inde. Donc billard à 3 bandes pour réussir à influencer la russie.
Vladimir Putin used to be notorious for being hours late to his meetings with world leaders – a power play that was not lost on politicians such as Germany’s Angela Merkel and Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan. But now, with no end in sight to his disastrous war in Ukraine, it is the Russian President who is being kept waiting at international summits – by Mr. Erdogan, by the Emir of Qatar, and by even his closest allies.
During a September meeting of the Shanghai Co-operation Organization, or SCO, Mr. Putin was shown standing alone, studying his notes, as he waited for the leaders of Kyrgyzstan, Turkey and Azerbaijan to show up. And in June, Kazakhstan’s President, Kassym-Jomart Tokayev, defied Moscow by declining to recognize the self-proclaimed independence of Ukraine’s breakaway pro-Russian statelets of Donetsk and Lugansk, which Russia has since illegally annexed.
Even Tajikistan’s Emomali Rahmon, the President of one of Central Asia’s poorest former Soviet states, and one that has long relied economically on Russia, has given Mr. Putin an unprecedented dressing-down. “We have always respected the interests of our main strategic partner, Russia,” he said at the Russia-Central Asia summit held in Astana on Oct. 14. “We want respect, too. We want to be treated on the same level as any other country.”
This unusual and highly public criticism from a traditional ally was telling, given the region’s authoritarian, personalist political culture where such signals and optics are deeply important. And it sent a powerful message, one that was perhaps even more powerful than Mr. Putin’s tardiness tactics: that the Russian President has lost influence in the former Soviet Union.
Mr. Putin’s increasing obsession with Ukraine over the years has hobbled his traditional role as the primary regional broker and constable for the former Soviet states. But this fall, in particular, has demonstrated his paralysis in an area that has traditionally formed an important bulwark of his domestic power and credibility. Indeed, when hostilities broke out between Azerbaijan and Armenia in September, it was Washington, not Moscow, that rushed in to mediate a truce and protect Russia’s traditional ally, Armenia.
Moscow has relied on its eastward pivot – a policy to reorient Russia’s economy toward trade with Asian countries – to help it endure the barrage of crippling economic sanctions introduced by Western countries after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in February. But the move was also meant to demonstrate that it still had alliances that would remain unaffected by Western attempts to isolate Russia, such as the SCO and the Collective Security Treaty Organization, or CSTO, a military alliance of former Soviet states that includes Armenia, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan, among others. But that illusion is fraying.
The Tajikistani President’s comments – “not enough attention was paid to the small republics” – punctured a myth that Mr. Putin has been trying hard to sell to hawkish patriots back home: that Russia was repairing the fractured former USSR and restoring the country’s influence among its former members. Mr. Rahmon’s remarks were a thinly veiled attack on Russia’s handling of post-USSR conflicts, particularly the one in eastern Ukraine, which has exploded into a full-fledged war.
Mr. Rahmon’s criticism was certainly part of an attempt to extract more financing and concessions from Russia. Tajikistan relies heavily on Russian trade and the money that the more than a million Tajikistani migrants working in Russia send back home. And practically speaking, Mr. Rahmon’s allegiance to Mr. Putin does not in and of itself translate into more money, soldiers or weapons to wage his war in Ukraine. While Russia has relied on CSTO countries to circumvent Western sanctions, Mr. Rahmon’s criticism does not pose implications for its place in the alliance.
Still, the perception that Mr. Putin’s power is waning is what emboldened Mr. Rahmon to press the Russian President this way, and it makes Mr. Putin even more vulnerable to such pressure from Russia’s domestic regional vassals, such as Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, and from Mr. Putin’s more powerful regional allies, including Mr. Tokayev in Kazakhstan. It will also affect the political calculi in Ankara, New Delhi and Beijing in how these powers manoeuvre their relationship with Mr. Putin – and especially in their estimate of what they can get from Russia.
In other words, the President of a small Central Asian country has just demonstrated to Mr. Putin that the Russian leader’s reliance on its non-Western allies comes at a price that Russia’s increasingly crippled economy is hard-pressed to pay. And others have surely noticed.
The autor : Anna Arutunyan is a Russian-American writer and a global fellow at the Wilson Center. She is the author of The Putin Mystique: Inside Russia’s Power Cult and, more recently, Hybrid Warriors: Proxies, Freelancers, and Moscow’s Struggle for Ukraine.
de rahoul » 21/10/2022 13:39
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