Zipang

[f_manu]

Message précédent :

Me suis procuré les 15 tomes et les ai lus.
Assez sympa, même si parfois on se demande où ça va aller, et si l'auteur maitrise vraiment tout. Par contre, je trouve le caractère du héros assez simplet, avec ses "on est là pour sauver des vies" tous les 3 chapitres... A force, on a doucement compris.

Je n'aurais pas tout à fait la même interprétation que toi

L'équipage est déboussolé, brutalement "téléporté" en pleine deuxième guerre mondiale. c'est d'autant plus dur pour Kadomatsu qu'il exerce le commandement (exercice solitaire s'il en est) et que les autres attendent des ordres, des explications. D'après moi, confronté à une situation excpetionnelle, il me semble logique et humain de le voir se raccrocher très souvent à ses certitudes, à ce qui subsiste de sa vie antérieure (autodéfense, sauvetage, ...). C'est sa "ligne de conduite", une façon de ne pas sombrer.

[klemenslothar]

Hello, everyone here!

I managed to understand Claudio's message in French.
It took me over 10 hours to translate them.

So, I want to say one thing.
Kawaguchi looks like changing history but actually he doesn't.
For example, please remember "sinking the Wasp" and "damaging the North Carolina".
Both of them actually happened in the Second Battle of the Solomon Sea.
Hitler isn't dead and Yamamoto is dead.
All above went through the ways different from the real history but reached the same results as the real history.
The only exception is the assassination of Puyi.
I think that Kawaguchi killed Puyi because he was not so important in the history.

And in the Second Battle of the Solomon Sea, another certain ship sank.
I won't mention her name.
Because I would be scolded again by Claudio if I mentioned it.

Please look forward to other volumes coming on in the future!

[f_manu]

Hello, everyone here!
I managed to understand Claudio's message in French.
It took me over 10 hours to translate them.

Good job, wasn't so evident :bravo:

So, I want to say one thing.
Kawaguchi looks like changing history but actually he doesn't.
For example, please remember "sinking the Wasp" and "damaging the North Carolina".
Both of them actually happened in the Second Battle of the Solomon Sea.
Hitler isn't dead and Yamamoto is dead.
All above went through the ways different from the real history but reached the same results as the real history.
The only exception is the assassination of Puyi.
I think that Kawaguchi killed Puyi because he was not so important in the history.

You agree with Messer

And in the Second Battle of the Solomon Sea, another certain ship sank.
I won't mention her name. Because I would be scolded again by Claudio if I mentioned it.

One Jap' sank, one US severely damaged ...

[klemenslothar]

One Jap' sank, one US severely damaged ...

How do you know that?
you're really YANAGI!!

[f_manu]

How do you know that?
you're really YANAGI!!

Not so difficult anymore. With a few books, internet, ...

[klemenslothar]

Not so difficult anymore. With a few books, internet, ...

I know, but I don't think so many Europeans are interested in the Pacific war.
Especially not in the Battle of the Solomon Sea!
I don't know anything about the battle lines in Europe or Africa.
You're really an "Otaku"!
I'm not speaking ill of you.
I'm admiring you!

[Coldo3895]

J'ai un trou... comment s'appelle le gars qui discute avec Yamamoto au début du tome 15 ? C'est un officier du Mirai ?...

Pfff... faudrait que je relise tout, histoire de me remettre tout ça en mémoire !

[klemenslothar]

J'ai un trou... comment s'appelle le gars qui discute avec Yamamoto au début du tome 15 ? C'est un officier du Mirai ?...

He is Eiichiro Taki, Capitaine de corvette of the Imperial Japanese Navy. He tried to let the American fleet sink the Mirai off Saipan. He appears on the volume 5 first.
You can check him in the Dailymotion too.

[klemenslothar]

The volume 30 has been released at last in Japan! [:prejoris:6]
[spoiler][/spoiler]
And you can get Zipang's wallpaper from the site below.
It's from the official website.

800*600 http://i.yimg.jp/images/evt/morning/wall_zipa_800_600.jpg
1024*768 http://i.yimg.jp/images/evt/morning/wall_zipa_1024_768.jpg

[klemenslothar]

He is Eiichiro Taki, Capitaine de corvette of the Imperial Japanese Navy.

He was promoted to the rank of Capitaine de frégate on the volume 13.
I apologize.

[klemenslothar]

I got these two pictures above on the web.
Both are the covers of a weekly magazine "MORNING", which carries Zipang.
On Kusaka's cover, it says, "希望の核。." That means "Nuke of Hope." Of course "Nuke" means a nuclear weapon.
On Kadomatsu's cover, it says, "平和こそ我が正義." That means "Peace is my very justice."

Kusaka's cover is the one of MORNING published 2 weeks ago. It feels surprising, and in a sense, kind of fascinating to me. Some Japanese even say Kusaka's picture feels erotic. (For your information, I'm straight. )
But "Nuke of Hope." is a taboo sentence in Japan. The Minister of Defense was forced to resign a few weeks ago because he made an affirmative statement about America's atomic-bombing on Japan. I was astonished to look at that cover.

"Peace is my very justice" is very suitable for Kadomatsu. Do you know where Kawaguchi and Kadomatsu are from? Kawaguchi is from Onomichi, Hiroshima(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onomichi%2C_Hiroshima or http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onomichi). Hiroshima is where America atom-bombed for the first time. And Kure, a city in Hiroshima, had a large naval base at the time of WW2 and has a JMSDF base now(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kure%2C_Hiroshima).
Kadomatsu is from Sasebo, Nagasaki(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasebo%2C_Nagasaki). Nagasaki is where America atom-bombed after Hiroshima. Sasebo had a naval base in WW2 like Kure and has the bases of both US Navy and JMSDF now.(I happen to be living in a town next to Sasebo. )

Kawaguchi and Kadomatsu are similar about their hometown. I think Kawaguchi's true ideology is close to Kadomatsu's. But only the hope for peace isn't exciting as manga at all. The conflict between Kusaka and Kadomatsu makes Zipang better.

I'm sorry to write long in English. I'll manage to translate them into French. [:elfik:1] [:xuunam:5]

[klemenslothar]

traduction de mon message antérieur

J'ai obtenu ces deux images sur le tissu. Les deux sont les abris d'un "MORNING" du magazine hebdomadaire. Il porte Zipang.
Il dit "Arme nucléaire d'Espoir" sur l'abri de Kusaka.
Il dit que "la Paix est ma même justice" sur l'abri de Kadomatsu.

L'abri de Kusaka a été publié il y a 2 semaines. Il se sent surprenant et fascinant à moi. Quelque japonais dit que l'image de Kusaka se sent érotique.
Mais La "arme nucléaire d'Espoir" est une phrase taboue au Japon. Le Ministre de Défense a été forcé à démissionner il y a quelques semaines parce qu'il a fait une déclaration affirmative au sujet du bombardement atomique d'Amérique sur Japon. J'ai été étonné pour regarder cet abri.

"La paix est ma même justice" est très convenable pour Kadomatsu. Est-ce que vous savez où Kawaguchi et Kadomatsu sont de? Kawaguchi est d'Onomichi, Hiroshima. Hiroshima est où Amérique atome-été un fiasco pour la première fois. Et Kure, une ville à Hiroshima, avait une grande base navale au temps de WW2 et a maintenant une base JMSDF.
Kadomatsu est de Sasebo, Nagasaki. Sasebo avait une base navale dans WW2 et a maintenant les bases de Marine nationale Américaine et JMSDF.

Kawaguchi et Kadomatsu sont semblables au sujet de leur ville natale. Je pense que l'idéologie vraie de Kawaguchi est près de Kadomatsu. Mais seulement l'espoir pour paix n'est pas passionnant à tout. Le conflit entre Kusaka et Kadomatsu fait mieux Zipang.

How about the translations? I used an automatic translator on the web. Let me know if they don't make senses. I'll delete them.

[f_manu]

Your translation is more or less "understandable" ... There is still some funny stuff : many thanks to Google

[klemenslothar]

This picture below is the cover of volume 16.
I don't know when it will be released in France.
So if you don't want to see this, please don't click the blank below.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[f_manu]

I clicked ...

[klemenslothar]

I warned you not to.
you're responsible for it.
[:kusanagui:6]

[bib]

Hello again klemenslothar and thank you for news about Zipang. We heard in France about the speech of the Minister of Defense and the nuclear bomb.

Don't worry much about translation, I think that those who want to read will take a dictionnary if they don't undersand well, because as f-manu said, the automatic translation is not very good (some little mistakes).

[klemenslothar]

Hello, bib [:ludicogne:2]
I didn't know you knew about his speech.
Partly because of his speech, the government party was defeated in the election of the Upper House last week.

My friend Claudio, who had told me about this forum, said that I could use English here, which you said too. But I don't want to disturb you guys dicussing in French as much as possible. And I might use English wrong because I'm a Japanese and I'm not a native English speaker.

Please tell me anything if you don't understand me. You can use even French. I'll translate.

I'll give you various information about Zipang from Japan from now on! [:elfik:1]

[f_manu]

You know, the defence minister speech was reported in France, especially because of geopolitics, due to evident connection with North Korea nuclear blackmail.

His resignation has been reported so, but may be less strongly than Junichiro Koizumi and Shinzo Abe's many and frequent "pilgrimages" at Yasukuni ...

[klemenslothar]

I'm afraid French journalists are totally misunderstanding what he said.
He said, "America's atomic-bombing on Japan was shoganai." "Shoganai" is hard to translate in English, but if I were to tranlate, it means "inevitable" or "it is useless to complain of it."
The problem is where he is elected from as a member of the House of Representatives. He is from NAGASAKI. The second atomic-bombed city. [:kusanagui:6] (Strictly speaking, he is from a city near Nagasaki.)
Atomic-bomb victims got angry and mad! This is why he was forced to resign. [:marion n:2]
What he said is a common and secret understanding among those who have studied history. As Kusaka is sayng in Zipang, nuclear weapons ceased wars between big countries. But the defense minister of Japan, even from Nagasaki, can't say that! [:kusanagui:6]

[f_manu]

Okay

I misunderstood ! Excuse me

Nukes are a touchy topic for the Japaneses. According to my (fuzzy) memory, somebody in Japan (I don' remember who, sorry) referred recently to nukes ... This could explain my mistake ???